Thoughts I've thunk while sippin' at a cup of tea and reading something provoking, often get dropped here for the benefit of humanity and my own hubris.
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Since we are on the subject of Norse (or Viking mythology), I just thought I'd throw out yet another useless bit o' trivia ...
When the Romans went around conquering neighboring countries, they assumed that everyone they met was just like them ... only more ignorant. They assumed that their Gods were the same as their own ... they just had different names.
This worked for some countries that lived down the block, but failed for those that lived farther away.
When they started conquering some of the Germanic tribes, they took their pantheon and started making correlations with their own. Even though Woden (Ódhinn) was the father of the Germanic pantheon, they didn't equate him with Jupiter (Zeus) … they hooked him up with Thurs (Thor). They did this due to their similar personalities and not on their position. (This, incidently, is why the 5th day of the week changed from Jupiter's Day to Thor's Day (Thursday) and the 4th day of the week changed from Mercury's Day to Woden's Day (Wednesday).
I know you're thinking, So what? ... but you see, prior to Mercury (Hermes) accepting the lowly position of Messenger of Olympus, he was a powerful God as Healer, Magician, and Scholar. (He is similar to the Egyptian Thoth as the teacher of writing to mankind). He kind of had a rekindling of his ancient power during the Middle Ages when a reincarnation of his began the Hermetical Orders.
He lost his power for the same reason why Ódhinn began to loose his ... Thor was big, manly and not overly bright ... but at least he was understandable. Ódhinn was moody, shady and powerful ... the Norse warriors just didn't trust this guy, and I think that his popularity was only kept alive as long as it was, because of the mystery rites associated with his worship.
I realize that this thought is a bit longer than my others, but my point is that over time, the people (both Greeks, Romans, Germans and Norse) began to drop the Transcendent God (one that is unknowable) for a simpler God that didn't take much effort. You know, one that didn't require a person to think.
So the fickled God of Scholars, Magicians and Healers with all his mysteries and heavy concepts got traded for the constant God of Socials and Jello Salad.
I find this a bit amusing when I look around nowadays ...
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Dear Mr. Abrams,
I can agree with you on many of the things you say but many people of the old Norse ways (those who practice Asatru) would most likely get offended by your use of the word worship. We do not worship or fall to the foot of any diety, we present confidence and instead of standing under the foot of a discriminating Deity… we stand beside our God’s and Goddess’s and honor them as they honor us. I don’t doubt that you have already been told that..but just count me as another who wants to her religion to be looked at accurately. Honor=Good. Worship=Bad.
LOL Sorry I had to do it. It’s not that we think of the term “worship” as bad…but part of our faith is to stand tall and not be submissive as many people of different faiths are to their deity’s.
Anyways, that was my rant for the evening. :-)
Comment posted on Friday, 5 July 2002I’m sorry that you misunderstood me. I was not commenting on modern views, but of the original people in Northern Europe.
I think that worship is actually a pretty good word to describe the ancient view of Ódhinn. For we have accounts of sacrifices made to him. Sacrifices imply ritual, and ritual implies devotion … hence my choice of the word, worship.
I will agree that the ancients view of their gods were not the same as the Christian perspective that most modern pagans were raised in initially believing. One of their favorite story talked about how Thor was convinced to dressing up as a woman.
Certainly, their worship was not the same sort of worship that the Christian missionaries preached.
However, even though Thor would have won a popularity contest against Ódhinn, the stories we have still ring with a certain respect and fear of this mysterious, fickled figure.
So, I think that I will still stick to my choice of words as honor seems too passive from my perspective. However, we will never fully know how the ancients viewed the world and their gods, and my comments here are just that … my perspective.
Comment posted on Friday, 5 July 2002I think that most pagans would agree with your sentiments, and that is certainly in keeping with with all my pagan friends. However, the views of moderns pagans are not the views of their ancient counterparts. They can’t be…
- Few original sources exist from this time period, and fewer still that weren’t influenced by Christian/Roman interaction.
- While stories may have been recorded (and assuming that they weren’t sanitized, other important details like ritual and beliefs weren’t written down at all.
- Most importantly, modern Americans can not know how it feels not to have a modern perspective on the world … we have been to the moon, we have seen pictures of the Earth from space, we have visited the depths of the oceans. Much mystery has been lost.
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